The Great Discussion - Dark Hole

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Dark Hole should be

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The Great Discussion - Dark Hole

Post by Shinji Mimura on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:01 pm

*part of The Great Discussion series*

Dark Hole
Normal Spell Card
Destroy all monsters on the field.
This card is currently Limited (at 1) in both the TCG and OCG. Where do you feel this card belongs?

Forbidden (at 0)
Limited
Semi-limited (at 2)
Unlimited (at 3)
Or a complex hit (this card moves up/down if another card[s] moves up/down)

Discuss.

Personal thought: Let's first understand this card's role in Yugioh and why something like Torrential is at 3 (in the OCG) [- Agent Ward] but Dark Hole is not.

Dark Hole fulfills only two roles: to punish overextension, and to facilitate OTK plays. For all intents and purposes, it's that second part that keeps this card Limited. In fact, anything that can basically create an OTK out of nothing is either Limited or Forbidden. Limiter Removal, Infernity Launcher, and Dark Hole are all Limited, whereas (in the TCG) Gateway of the Six, Ultimate Offering, and Giant Trunade are all Forbidden.

While I'm not at all saying that just because a card can lead to an OTK it deserves to be hit, there is absolutely no denying that Dark Hole IS used, by OTK-centric decks, as one way to (generally) clear the opponent's board so that all you have to worry about is backrow.

Now, that first bit (punish overextension) is also important, because imagine if it were at 2 or 3 and people did, indeed, run 2-3 copies. It would seldom be safe to ever place more than a monster on the field at a time, unless A. it's a floater, B. it can protect itself (a la Maestroke), C. you feel confident in something like Forbidden Lance. But, yeah, if Dark Hole were to become popular at 2 or 3, it would encourage ridiculously conservative Yugioh, which isn't really a good thing given how fast our game is now.

So, how is it that Torrential Tribute is at 3 in the OCG and many TCG players feel it should move up (with or without Heavy Storm becoming legal), yet Dark Hole is at 1 in both formats? Don't they have the same general effect?

Yes and no. Torrential being able to activate on the opponent's turn means that it's not necessarily an OTK tool. Moreover, with Pendulums becoming the norm of Yugioh, creating huge fields (that can, indeed, OTK) is only going to become more prevalent, and you're going to need to be able to react on your opponent's turn, not your own. Ergo, Torrential has a niche it needs to fulfill to match the demands of the metagame.

Now, as for Dark Hole's number, a repeating consensus across the Yugioh boards is that the card isn't a staple anymore, and, therefore, should be considered to be pushed to 2. In fact, the pro-Raigeki brigade is saying forget Dark Hole; it's time we start testing Raigeki again. Whether you agree or disagree, there's no denying that Dark Hole just isn't as strong as it used to be.



So... who would run 2 or 3 Dark Hole if not everyone is even running the 1? Well, I don't know, and the only real way to find out is to test it, right?

I'm currently unconvinced, however. Dark Hole has a designated purpose at 1, and the thing to remember is that, at 2, it now has consistency and the ability to be used again, essentially. At 2, you draw it more quickly, and at 2, you could feasibly use it twice in a match. That is something I feel goes ignored far too often. Goes even more so for Dark Hole being at 3.

Truly, I don't believe in keeping weak cards on the list, so, yes, I feel it'd be interesting to be tested at 2 and go from there, but I am nervous of Dark Hole suddenly becoming meta at 2 or 3, because, again, the moment using 2-3 Dark Hole becomes meta is the moment the entire Yugioh landscape changes.

I say to 1, but I'll hear arguments.
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Re: The Great Discussion - Dark Hole

Post by #assassin on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:05 pm

Dark Hole isn't a problem right now, so, to 3.


Last edited by Agent Ward on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Great Discussion - Dark Hole

Post by The Supreme King on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:15 pm

I think he meant in the OCG Torrential is at 3. He didn't specifically state it, but it's implied in the second paragraph.


It's really not seeing play because the big 3 float so potentially. I've seen all manner of decks talking about running Dark Holes and Raigekis when Nekroz come to TCG. Dark Hole is a card that is shaped by the meta its in. I don't think it can shape a meta on its own, if any of the big decks can float it'll be put into the side deck. I think it would be fairly harmless to test at 3.


Last edited by The Great Integrity on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Great Discussion - Dark Hole

Post by #assassin on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:15 pm

The Great Integrity wrote:I think he meant in the OCG Torrential is at 3. He didn't specifically state it, but it's implied in the second paragraph.

Ah, ok.
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